DEBRA CHONG's one-on-one with Datuk Shahrir Abdul Samad, Minister of Domestic Trade and Consumer Affairs and MP for Johor Baru

KUALA LUMPUR, April 21 – It's been almost 2 months after the general elections and for many people, there is still no clear sense of direction of where the country is headed. One second, we see the Prime Minister striding forth and calling for reforms. The next, another leader steps up and on a few words, appears to undo the Prime Minister's bold plans.

At times like these when the nation's leaders are caught up in power quibbles, the next best thing to do is look towards a leader who has been steadily ploughing onwards, fulfilling the work that needs doing.

One such person is Datuk Shahrir Abdul Samad, the long-serving member of Parliament for Johor Baru and newly-appointed Minister of Domestic Trade and Consumer Affairs. Many see the outspoken Shahrir, a former chairman of the Barisan Nasional Backbenchers Club, as a politician with a conscience, who continues to hold the rakyat's interests at heart.

In these desperate times, he shares his thoughts on the domestic chaos and reassures The Malaysian Insider that these perceived troubles will not break the country.

Q: To non-Umno members it seems like Umno is dividing again, like what has happened in the past. What are your thoughts on the current state of affairs that seems to have cleft Umno into two?

SAS: I don't see any factions emerging because if we go back to 1987, there was Semangat 46 and in 1999, there was (Datuk Seri) Anwar (Ibrahim) and Keadilan.

What happened in 1987 was a contest for the presidency; the Umno leadership deliberately strategising to exclude anybody, those who were able to support Tengku Razaleigh and (Tun) Musa Hitam. In 1999, in Anwar's case, it was a reaction to what was done to Anwar Ibrahim. He was sacked and prosecuted and put in jail.

In both cases, it was a deliberate move by the leader himself, the president of the party to exclude those who were contesting against him. In 1987, for example, it was a follow-up from what happened for contesting the presidency. In Anwar's case, it was a clear power struggle. There were steps, things happening in the Umno Youth Assembly – the organisation of demonstrations were made clear to Dr Mahathir. It was clear that Umno was being challenged, so there was a purge.

I don't think this same situation will happen to Abdullah Badawi. The opinions he has are not an indication of a purge.

So when you get people who ask their leaders to resign, who look for who should win, people start looking to the next line-up. That's why they see after Abdullah Badawi, there's (Datuk Seri) Najib (Razak), then (Datuk Mohd) Ali Rustam, then (Tan Sri) Muhyiddin (Yassin).

But I don't think it'll head to a split or break into factions. I don't think it's going anywhere unless Umno makes a deal with Anwar Ibrahim. If that happens, maybe we'll see PAS go back to Umno (grins).

Q: There seem to be quite a number of Umno members clamouring for Pak Lah to resign. In your opinion, will changing the leader resolve the root of the problem?

SAS: To me, that's not the problem. Maybe seen through someone else's perception, through self-interests, it is.

In 1999, we received a wake-up call – let's rejuvenate Umno. I remember the discussion because I was the “no” man. I won without having any positions, I wasn't an MP. I was a supreme councillor because they wanted a “no” man; because the perception then was that Dr Mahathir was surrounded by a council of “yes” men. So, they had to look at the real reasons why people ran away.

(They) Prescribed a cure to a problem that doesn't exist. Even in the talks by (Datuk Seri Dr Mohd) Khir Toyo, that Abdullah Badawi must leave earlier, but is that a credible opinion? Coming from someone in Umno, in the BN, who lost Selangor to the Opposition, it's not seen as a strong challenge. Is he credible? I don't think so. As someone who can blame the top leadership (for their own losses).The ones who come out openly and have more venom are the ones who lost or were not candidates.

When Khir Toyo was the leader for Selangor, I was very supportive. Here is a young professional, he's got everything, he's got nothing to lose anymore.

During the election, I was prepared for a swing. I knew it was not going to be as strong as 2004. Everybody was prepared for a swing, we just didn't know how strong a swing it would be.

As far as the MIC is concerned ... I got this SMS from one guy, he said, “If Samy Vellu stands for BN, we're not going to vote for BN.” After the polls, people came up to me – and I don't know these people – they were telling me, “It's not because people don't like the product. People just don't trust the salesmen anymore.”

So, we treat the problem, not by asking the leader to go, not immediately, because then we have to see who talks, who spends. If it's Khir Toyo, I think he's lost a lot of credibility in Selangor. I've never seen anyone being pushed, being heckled in a closed door committee meeting.

As much as I prefer to look at the substance, it's hard to have credibility when you look at their opinions.